Yes, we are one of those people.. You know those who say “I don’t watch much TV, even if I do, it’s always documentary…”, you know those who suspect that they are watching Survivor secretly.. Here we are talking about them. In our house, we have İZ TV, which is always on in the background while writing, eating and chatting.. How many times we watched the second New documentary, how many times we traveled to India with Işıl Bayraktar, we don’t even know anymore.. Of course, the same goes for Wilco’s Caravan.. Our acquaintance, which started with the jealousy of “brother, how nice he is traveling” in the beginning, resulted in him turning into a friend we have known for years, thanks to his sincerity and sympathy.. Because he was always in the background while having breakfast at home, sitting in the living room with his parents, playing Scrabble with his best friend, I think he was officially one of us.
Wilco van Herpen is a really great man.. That “feeling like we’ve been friends for years” that we talked about above, that feeling really doubles when you meet him.. The desire to explore the world, get to know people, produce and create is fascinated.. You understand from the first 5 minutes, there is a person you really want to get to know and you can talk to for hours.. Aside from his sincerity and humor, we are talking about a person who you can learn a lot of things from even if you spend a day together and expand your horizons. What he knows, sees and thinks affects you so much that you say wow, this man really loves this country, he has truly become a part of it!
Make no mistake, we didn’t interview Wilco. We had a real chat with Wilco. We sat down with Varuna Traveler, we drank coffee, we asked what we were curious about, and he told us what he wanted.. At times we told him our memories, at times he made us laugh, we could not recover from laughter.. So we didn’t move forward by opening a paper in front of us and ticking the questions, as expected. Frankly, it would be appropriate to say that we felt as if we were the “foreigners” at many points, but he was introducing Turkey to us.. This being the case, a much more sincere interview emerged, I think we would have published this much more if we could.. Come and join our conversation with Wilco van Herpen, welcome.
With your permission, start the interview with the question that everyone is afraid to ask but is afraid to ask. we want. These days, a situation of “let’s get away from here” is on its head throughout Turkey, especially among the Y generation.. For this reason, many people find it strange that you insist on living here as “The man is a Dutch citizen, why does he want to live here?”. What do you think about this?
Actually, I can say that things have started to change a little in my personal environment.. Just this morning, I got the news that a foreign friend of mine living in Turkey will start living in another place with his Turkish wife.. In other words, I can say that the people around me are starting to move away from here, which I think will intensify even more… I don’t want to run away or go.. ‘Cause I really love this country, being here. But you know, I have a daughter and I have to think for her from time to time.. My plan so far was to take him to the Netherlands around the age of 18 and train there.. Since he has been here for years, he has grasped the culture of this place, his Turkish identity is solid now, and I want him to know a little about the Netherlands.. However, I’ve been thinking about changing this decision recently and taking this process to the time when my daughter turns 12.
So you also intend to move to the Netherlands?
If possible. I will continue to work in Turkey, I think my wife and daughter will live in the Netherlands. Of course, this is just a thought at the moment, I don’t know yet whether it will happen or not.
Do you have any desire to promote Turkey in the Netherlands or to make such programs
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I hope I have such an opportunity. Because Turkey is portrayed in a very different way than the way I know and see it abroad.. Most of the things you come across about Turkey are political.. I think Turkey is definitely a place far beyond that.. It is necessary not to overlook the history and culture of this place, and to get to know and promote the people, especially in the villages and rural areas.. The aunts, uncles, and masters I’ve met during my travels are not really the kind of people I’d meet elsewhere.. I learn so much from them that I can’t understand the disappearance of this master-apprentice relationship and the young people’s lack of interest in so much wealth.. In almost every program, I am in a state of call, “where are you guys, let’s continue this work”! There is no such way of life in the Netherlands anymore.. There is not so much space and a craftsman culture similar to that in Turkey.. Not that rich though. But Turkey is still a country that can continue such traditions.. For this reason, of course, I would love to be able to explain these aspects of Turkey.
In fact, at this point, we would like to mention your first visit to Turkey.. Because it is quite surprising for us that Turkey does not have a wonderful impression in the Netherlands and even in Europe, but that you still decide to spend your years in Turkey.. Especially as people who are still exposed to annoying clichés such as “Do you ride camels in Turkey”, we wonder how you decided to come to a country with this impression.
I’m sure you hear the following sentence a lot: , Are you Turk? You don’t look like a Turk at all”. Because yes you are right, there are indeed people in Europe who have this impression.. However, before I started to stay here for a long time, I had already visited Turkey several times as a photographer since ’96 and understood more or less what the order was.. As a tourist, I explored places such as Bodrum, Cappadocia, Istanbul, Konya.. After all these, I made a decision and wanted to spend more time in this country in order to get to know Turkey and Turkish people better, maybe to advance in the field of photography.. Moreover, I did not come by doing such an in-depth research.. I was completely ignorant and let go. As a matter of fact, even while making my current programs, I follow this logic.. I think of myself like a sponge; As I travel, see, get to know and learn about people, I accumulate information just like a sponge absorbs water, and in this way, I come to my own conclusions without prejudices.. Because every person has prejudices, it is impossible to be without prejudice. In order to prevent this, it is very important to go and talk to the people of a region, maybe work there for a while, and see it with your own eyes.
Although you came to Turkey without doing any research, you have a good command of many subjects here.. For example, in 1999, the year you came to Turkey, we read something that you jumped off and went there when you heard that Öcalan was captured.
Yes, I did something like that, really.. At that time I was already working as a journalist.. When I came to Turkey and learned that there was such a situation, I thought “I have to be there too”. After doing something similar in South Africa before, it didn’t seem like a very dangerous, risky situation to do it, frankly, I just wanted to witness such an event.. For example, when I was in South Africa, the effort I made to go there to photograph the war in Somalia was very frightening.. When I set out to observe the Öcalan issue, my only concern was to find a place to stay.. My close friend Ahmet Şık told me “Wilco, Radikal rented a house there for journalists, you can stay there if you want”. I went and stayed there for a few nights, and that’s how my problem was resolved.
Maybe it’s time to ask the question you’ve been waiting for.. Why did you come to Turkey and not another country?
At that time, in 1987, I was working in a hotel.. A Turkish man was working there and he was constantly giving me advice like Wilco that Turkey is beautiful, this is beautiful, you should definitely go.. The man was determined, but we were talking about it every day.. In the first place, this process, which started with my fudge phrases such as “hmm okay okay I’ll go”, turned into my starting to wonder about Turkey over time, funny but true! My girlfriend at that time was also Turkish.. I said do you want to come too, although he didn’t like it at first, he finally agreed to come with me and we toured in Turkey together.. Then I came to Turkey (May 1, like Metin Göktepe’s funeral) to photograph a few different events as a photographer, and I realized that the country changes a little more each time.. This situation was very interesting for me, I think there would be something interesting here and I had to be here in this process, to observe it.. I can say that this is why I came.
Were you doing journalism when you first came to Turkey? Didn’t you have any trouble finding a job here?
I couldn’t find a job at first. Frankly, I didn’t want to at many points, because I felt like I was doing other people’s rights.. Because there was a strange treatment towards foreign photographers when I first came to Turkey! “Oh, are you a foreigner? You are also a photographer! Then I’m talking about a situation like “come and work with us”. Foreigners were especially cherished, as if every foreigner had to be very successful.. When I realized such a situation, I felt like I was stealing work from Turkish photographers, I did not want to work in those jobs.. At that time, after I was able to stand on my own feet, there was no need for me more… I worked for newspapers and magazines of Dutch origin, I had some work for radio and TV.. So I progressed slowly. Then I made the “Escape Plan” program for TRT for about six months, then TV8 and finally İZ TV.. However, I didn’t feel like I was “stealing someone’s job” while doing any of these jobs, and that was very important to me.. I tried to look at Turkey through the eyes of a foreigner, it was a job only I could do.
The question of “How do European people see us?”. It must be because we are a society that is a bit in between… We are somewhere between being a Middle Eastern country and being a European country, we are Muslim but we are a secular society and things like that have dragged us into an identity confusion over time… Maybe this is one of the main reasons why your programs are so popular.. In fact, we learn what a European thinks about us..
Absolutely so, yes, I think it was a result of my traveling as a “foreigner”. We talked about this with Ayhan Sicimoğlu the other day.. As he said, the area where I am strong is Turkey.. Because I am a foreigner and the reason why people are extra curious about my comments is because I am a foreigner, I cannot evoke the same feeling if I am traveling abroad.. I have traveled so much in Turkey that I think I may not know the Netherlands as well as Turkey! Even though I feel like I haven’t seen anything yet, at least I’ve set foot in every city and I can roughly say “I’ve seen all of Turkey”.. I am starting to get to know the regions I go to much better because I usually try to determine the flow of my programs myself, and try to convey the unknown and the unseen about a place.. So we went to Bodrum, I don’t like to say let’s show the castle, show the market, if such a proposal is presented to me, I do not accept it.. Everyone sees them already, they know! Instead, as a foreigner, while exploring a region, I want to introduce Turkish people to more original and specific things, we learn together, we observe together. Despite the themed programs, you are still the most popular foreign programmer..
I remember years ago, a foreign man was making a program on TRT.. He went and found a beautiful door, making some comments about the door like this: “There is a door here.. I love this door.” What are you saying bro? Why do you love this door? Why is this door beautiful? What is its feature, why was it made, what is its history? Thank you, I loved it too, I think it’s nice, but add something from yourself! For example, we go to a place and they say to me, “Let’s shoot a keynote for the Wilco program”. I haven’t visited yet, I haven’t seen it, I don’t know how it makes me feel, what should I talk about? That’s why I always give the keynote speech last.. I think because of these reasons, we have created a different sense of intimacy between us and the audience.
This situation tells us that Turkish people embrace non-Turkish people with intense love, evoked the state of being extra hospitable to that person. For example, while there is a problem of racism against black races in many parts of the world, we are shown the opposite love, we find people who cannot speak Turkish more sympathetic than those who can speak Turkish, it is a strange situation actually.. Are you being treated the same way?
I can hardly distinguish it. In general, people are incredibly hospitable, wherever I go, we suddenly mingle, suddenly we are like friends of 40 years.. I even find it difficult to eat, especially. Because we are sitting at the table, I say ok, since we have such a full plate, we will only eat this meal.. Then I see another meal is coming! Even though I am full, I try to eat so that it is not shameful, but when that happens, they add food to my plate, saying, “This guy must have liked it.” This man is sitting on the stone, he is cooking something with his stove, is there anyone who says no, friend, you are doing it?
It can be very rare. But there is usually a situation like this: As a part of the program, I go to an aunt’s house to prepare a local meal with her, for example.. Aunt has been watching TV series for years or watching cooking shows on television in a professional environment.. As a matter of fact, the impression and image he got about the cook is also clear.. When that aunt sees someone like me with her, she doesn’t take it seriously at first, she’s a foreigner anyway, she probably thinks how should she know, she doesn’t expect anything from me.. But I’m an aunt, so I say let’s get hold of something, cut something, cook something, and from that point on, things change.. He says OK, this man knows something, he learned something, he is not an empty man!
Sometimes I even have arguments. For example, we went to Çorum, we will make a program on Hattusa.. I need to focus on the Hittite cuisine, and the information about Hittite cuisine is generally based on the dishes presented to the gods.. But this stuck in my head: What do the Hittite people eat? I started to think about what the people of this place might have eaten under these conditions and tried to come to a conclusion based on my observations.. I decided, I went and bought some horns, stuffed your neck with wheat, dried figs, goat meat.. I didn’t use anything that wasn’t likely to be found at the time, and it was an amazingly delicious dish! Later, when I talked to the archaeologists at the hotel, I explained what I was doing, and the reactions started immediately: “This is not Hittite food!”. How do you know bro? Because there is no article about it! They objected when I said that I was trying to get an idea and understand that period and discover what kind of food the people might have consumed.. I think it’s wrong to be so precise, especially as a scientist… I gave a pretty intense discussion that day, for example.
While I was meeting with you Of course, we will not pass without talking about Turkish cuisine.. We don’t ask you if you are good with Turkish Cuisine, we know it well…
Of course, Turkish cuisine is a great cuisine.. In fact, I think we should not just say Turkish cuisine.. I love to discover and experience all the cuisines in Turkey.. Since Turkey is a complete mix of cultures, hundreds of things come out when it gets more specific.. Hatay, Adana, Black Sea or Aegean? Or it turns into an endless story in the form of Armenian cuisine, Greek cuisine or even Hittite, Byzantine, Ottoman.. There is an incredible diversity and potential in Turkey in this regard, but I think unfortunately we cannot use it well.
Absolutely! For example, when it comes to Turkish cuisine in Europe, it’s all about shish kebab, doner kebab and baklava.. However, we are talking about something so comprehensive that we have not been able to understand how we can only be known by this trio all over the world.
I think this is Turkey’s general problem.. Turkey can’t show itself as it should, can’t reflect it well enough. Let me give a very simple example, when we started the program on İZ TV in 2006, we learned that there was no proper profit in Europe that year.. But on the contrary, there was a lot of snow in Turkey that year! So what will you do then? You will immediately prepare a very fast project, you will announce it, this is a super opportunity for promotion, to attract people to the country! But no, no one thought of doing such a thing.. I have been in Turkey for years, this year for the first time I came across a promotional film that reflects Turkey very well and can make it really attractive.. I don’t think we’re good at these things at all.
By the way, speaking of ready meals, as far as we know, your father was also a cook, I suppose? Do you have any background in food? Did you get any training?
Yes, my father was a cook and I learned to cook from him.. My father was a very different, creative, innovative man who was eager to explore.. I will never forget, when we went on holiday when we were little, we saw the French people in the region wandering around on the beach with bags in their hands.. They collect something, but what? My father took me and we started observing them.. After a while, my father said ok, I solved it, grab a bag, we will collect it.. Turns out, they were collecting the mussels that were left under the wet sand when the waters receded! Then we made a delicious pasta from those mussels, we had our dinner and it was delicious.. That’s the kind of guy my father used to improvise, he taught me that too.. I think being able to improvise is the most important thing, especially for someone who makes a television show.. It is necessary to be able to overcome a problem that will arise suddenly, to know how to manage without a missing material.. Who knows how many programs we have saved by improvising?
Are there any places in Istanbul where you are a regular as a chef? Let’s make some copies from you
When I am in Istanbul, my favorite place and my motto are clear: Home Sweet Home. I like to be home when I’m not working. I planted tomatoes in my garden, I planted spices, I like to take care of them.. For example, I like Yakup 2 as a venue.. But in most places in Istanbul, there may be a problem of encountering a different situation every time he goes.. The place, which is very good in one visit, does not turn out as you hoped in the other.. So generalization is not easy for me.. I guess I care more about who made that dish and how it was prepared rather than where and what they ate, and they usually come from lesser-known small places. We accept that food or product as good.. But of course, this assumption may not always be true…
This issue makes me very, very sad.. For example, Van has one of the best cheeses I’ve ever eaten; Van herby cheese. I have never eaten anything like this in my life, at least as good as roquefort.. An amazing taste! Something to go amazing with wine or something.. Likewise, there is a wonderful smoked cheese in İspir, most people don’t even know about it.. They are released once a year and I can’t tell you the taste of the version produced in wooden drums, especially in limited numbers! It’s already sold out instantly. I can’t understand how these are not announced, how they don’t have a more international reputation.. When I bring these cheeses to my friends who have a Michelin star restaurant in the Netherlands, they are surprised what they will do, they fly while they are eating.. If I can, I will give an opinion to everyone, there is so much to announce and show in this country! Sometimes I tell people my ideas, they say to me, “Oh, Wilco, don’t tell me, they’ll steal your idea”. Play it bro, play it! What happens here is in Paris etc.. If it were in one place, the whole world would flock there, they market it everywhere.. Things are progressing differently with us.
By the way, putting aside our complaints, is there a new program or a new project in the near future? We collectively have great expectations on this.
We are planning to start a program called “Soul Foods” with Paul Dwyer.. We’ll travel together, he’ll focus on the music, I’ll focus on the food and photography. We have prepared a pilot episode, the part of the deal with the channels and sponsors is left.. This project really excites me, I think very good things will come out.. Paul is a very talented, featured guy and we made a really cohesive team together.. Like me, he loves Turkey very much and is happy to be here.. We both have different observations. For this reason, it is not possible to have a similar program that will emerge at the moment.. The Turkish nation was already confusing Paul and me, now things will get mixed up when we both make a program together, I guess.
